Poland’s PiS leader Kaczyński talks to Brussels Signal: ‘I wish Viktor Orbán victory’

Just before the Hungarian elections on April 12, the leader of Poland’s Law and Justice (PiS) party, Jarosław Kaczyński, gave a joint interview to Brussels Signal and to the Hungarian weekly, Mandiner. During the interview, he categorically denied reports in some sections of the European press that, due to differences of opinion on the war in Ukraine, the Polish right-wing was turning its back on Hungary’s Prime Minister Viktor Orbán. 

He emphasises that, of course, there are significant differences between Poland and Hungary on many issues: “When it comes to my relationship with Prime Minister Orbán, I always recall a meeting from 2016. During a conversation that lasted the whole day, we clarified all our differences, with Prime Minister Orbán being very frank and speaking openly about the situation and where these differences lie.

“It was also a conversation about history – the history we both still remember and the history that lies ahead. It is clear that there were far-reaching differences, but what unites us and the opportunities for cooperation in many fields are far more important.

“I remember that conversation and recall it whenever various people accuse me of cooperating with someone who does things differently from us. I am aware of these differences, but I see a vast scope for cooperation and a great tradition of Polish-Hungarian friendship. We are united by a common goal – preserving the sovereignty of our nations, working towards the kind of development we want, not the one others design for us.

“And that is enough for us to cooperate. In our part of Europe, freedom is not guaranteed, neither for the nation nor for the individual; hence the great need to cooperate with others, even when there are significant differences,” said Jarosław Kaczyński.

The politician also refers to Hungary’s relations with Russia: “Hungary maintains good relations with Russia, and has no other choice given its energy dependence. But this does not alter the fact that, even though we have pursued a policy of strongly opposing Russia and fully supporting Ukraine, we are still accused of being ‘Putin’s people’.

“Here, the truth has no significance whatsoever. None. If the opposition wins in Hungary, the truth will vanish in Hungary; the very concept of truth will no longer have any referents,” he emphasised to Brussels Signal.

When asked about Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s threats against Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán that he would “give this person’s [Orbán’s] address to soldiers so they can have a chat with him in their own way”, the former Polish prime minister assessed them very critically. “They astonished and worried me. Because I very much want Ukraine to win this war, but I simply do not understand moves like these. They harm Ukraine, Europe, Hungary and they also harm Poland. I am hugely surprised in such a negative way,” he said.

When asked to assess Peter Magyar, leader of the opposition Tisza party, he highlighted his questionable behaviour. “I know what his political past is like; I know about his various misdeeds, which could only be forgiven in a 16-year-old. But he’s probably older than that,” he said. 

The main concern, however, relates to the ideological stance represented by Magyar and his dependence on external forces. Poland experienced the full destructive impact of both these phenomena after December 2023, when Donald Tusk took power. 

“In Poland at the moment, the law applies only to the extent that the authorities see fit. If it is inconvenient for the authorities for certain regulations not to apply, then they do not apply. This goes further than we had anticipated. We expected the worst, and it is even worse,” assesses the leader of Law and Justice. 

He adds that, after more than two years of the current government, Poland is facing a severe crisis in the rule of law and public finances.

“We left the country in good shape, despite the pandemic and the war. At the moment, we are facing a rapid rise in debt and a future that, whilst perhaps not yet as dire as Greece’s, is very bleak indeed.

“This government is incapable of governing. It is run by a group that is completely unsuited to the task, unable to grasp something as complex as running a country.

“They have no competence, apart from ill will and complete dependence on Germany.

“This government feels immune from punishment. It has formidable media protection. It is capable of changing its mind completely within three days, and then changing it again.

“No allegations against its members are taken seriously. Recently, we have had a paedophile and zoophile scandal there, and that is not being publicised in the media either. I believe it will be similar in Hungary. Magyar’s party is of the same type as Tusk’s party in Poland, and Magyar himself is a man of the same type as Tusk,” assesses Kaczyński. 

And he warns the Hungarians that if the current opposition wins, “something similar to what we have in Poland will happen. A complete rejection of the law under the pretext of restoring it. A lie, a total one; in Poland they say that black is white and white is black. They will do to the Hungarians what Tusk did to the Poles”. 

“The stakes are very, very high for Hungary, but also for Europe.

“As far as the Hungarians are concerned, the stakes relate to their sovereignty and dignity, but also to their quality of life, ranging from material well-being to freedom from the various social ills that are rampant in Western Europe and which attempts are being made to transfer to our part of Europe, including Hungary.

“If the opposition wins, things will quickly change for the worse for Hungarians, from economic matters, through the quality of governance, to the preservation of order and the national character of Hungary,” he adds.

Kaczyński believes that another victory for Orbán would form part of a sequence of events anticipated by many, which, for the first time in years, could create a real opportunity for major change in Europe.

“If Orbán wins in Hungary, if we win in Poland, if Bardella wins in France, and we already have Meloni in Italy, then a force of this kind could emerge that would truly begin to change Europe.

“And this is very, very much needed. The European Union is currently in a severe crisis that could lead to its collapse.

“We do not wish for this; we want the Union to be a lasting mechanism for coordinating the policies of European states that are sovereign – not states which, regardless of the treaties, are subject to constant interference from the central authorities, both the official ones in Brussels and the unofficial ones in Berlin,” he states. 

That is why, according to Kaczyński , an Orbán victory “would open up the possibility of change in Europe”. A defeat would close off that prospect, “to the great detriment of all nations, including those who are not yet aware of this”. 

He recalls that Dr Karol Nawrocki, the independent candidate nominated by Kaczyński’s party, in a surprising turn of events and against all the polls, won the presidential election on 1 June 2025.

If parliamentary elections were held in Poland today, the conservative side would win by a landslide.

“We have gone on the offensive and have every chance of bringing about change in Poland next year, followed by the restoration of the state, the rule of law and the even more difficult process of repairing public finances,” said Kaczyński. 

This is why, in his view, there is such strong external support for Tisza. “In Poland, they wouldn’t have won without external support. They’re trying to repeat that in Hungary,” Kaczyński said.

He believes that if there are attempts to undermine FIDESZ’s victory or block the election results at the EU level, decisive action must be taken. “They tried that after our victory in the presidential election, too. We firmly rejected it,” he said.

The interview also included an assessment of two politicians involved in the campaign against Orbán—EC President Ursula von der Leyen and EPP leader in the European Parliament, Manfred Weber.

“They are the architects of what can most succinctly be described as German neo-imperialism. Regardless of which version of this European unification is adopted, it will mean German domination and the stripping of sovereignty from all countries except Germany and perhaps France.

“This process, as far as the countries of Central and Central-Eastern Europe are concerned, will be the most intense and will fit into plans that were first formulated in Germany at the turn of the 19th and 20th centuries in the concept of ‘Mitteleuropa.’

“We do not want such a Europe. We want a Europe in which our nations are sovereign, participating in a mechanism of institutionalised cooperation, but one that has its limits.

“Where the principle of equality among all states applies, not only in voting but also according to the rule that if something is possible, for example, in Germany, then it is also possible in Poland and Hungary.

“In short, there is no rule, as they have tried to claim, that there are different levels of political culture and that, consequently, what is permitted to Germans is not permitted to Poles. There can be no compromises here,” he said. 

He also notes that it is necessary to abolish the principle currently enshrined in the first of the two European treaties, namely that the EU aims to continuously deepen integration.

“Because if it aims to continuously deepen integration, then logically the end result should be a centralised European state. Not even a United States, but a centralised state.

“This is a nonsensical provision. There are many provisions in these treaties that need to be changed, and it would be best to have new treaties.

“We once discussed this informally with Ms. Merkel, without results. But they know we have concrete plans here, and they’re afraid of that. And we want to return to this plan, together with Prime Minister Orbán and other leaders in Europe,” Kaczyński stated.

“That’s why I wish him victory—now, in the next elections, and in the ones after that. Mr. Orbán is still young,” concludes the leader of the Polish patriotic camp.